Flying in Strong Winds

[youtubevideo]

I saw this and thought it raised some interesting points about what happens if you get caught out after take off.

Comments?

Learn your Metrology and don't get caught out, simples

Paragliding training would've helped here with Cs control on the ground, As stalls on landing, run towards the wing/wingtip, etc. The first BHPA paramotor training in the 90's required good wing control in 15mph winds on the ground.

Richard

As you say, but having taken off It seems to me that there were a couple of things that he could have tried:-

first, perhaps his initial direction should have been upwind, this would have resulted in an easy downwind home leg.

second, having realised the lack of forward progress he applied more power and climbed making things worse. He eventually gave up on this, cut power and descended at which point he noted that this gave a slight improvement. Had he continued to a much lower level I believe that he would have found conditions to be much more favourable and could have had a fun time doing nap of the earth back to the car

third, realising that battling aloft into the teeth of the wind was a no go perhaps taking a leaf out of a sailors book and tacking back and forth along the mean route of travel could have resulted in a less stressfull journey.

I realise that I do not have much (well, none) experience in these matters so I fully expect to be shot down in flames for my simplistic approach!

first, perhaps his initial direction should have been upwind, this would have resulted in an easy downwind home leg.

.... so I fully expect to be shot down in flames for my simplistic approach!

No not at all. Going upwind is always my approach when is is a bit breezy.

Cheers, Alan

first, perhaps his initial direction should have been upwind, this would have resulted in an easy downwind home leg.

.... so I fully expect to be shot down in flames for my simplistic approach!

No not at all. Going upwind is always my approach when is is a bit breezy.

Cheers, Alan

I always play upwind- just a discipline I inherited from my days of model flying. Fuel management is easier, as you can always 'free wheel' home with the wind, and there are no surprises.

Yes- very logical... I'm tempted to say it's 'common sense'. But maybe that's not so common these days.....

There has been a lot of discussion about this Video on the Paramotor facebook page over the last day or so...... a warning and a lesson for everyone.

1)In a nutshell- "If there's any doubt, there's no doubt- DONT FLY" - come back another day.......

2)If conditions change, then land at the NEXT/SAFEST opportunity.... don't press on home, or to the car... This has caused so many accidents in general aviation....

3)Know your weather. If you fly on a cold sunny morning with low wind- of course the wind is going to increase with thermic activity...... In the evening you can expect opposite.. but don't assume anything. Look at the synoptics, learn to read them, and work it out.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/para ... ment_reply

......... having realised the lack of forward progress he applied more power and climbed making things worse. He eventually gave up on this.......!

Why would anyone think this???? Really baffles me..... Basic Wind Gradient....

It's very easy to sit in front of the monitor and dish out criticisms, and say how stupid someone is for making a mistake, but after a couple hundred flights I am still making mistakes that I kick myself for, but crucially learn from. No two flights are ever the same, especially meteorologically, and there is always something to learn from each.

They should never be taken as an opportunity to preach.

The only thing that confused and shocked me a little was a comment made at 9.00mins about an assumption that increasing power would increase speed

and the surprise that instead of increasing forward progress, he in fact climbed.

Anyway, I love these videos and the opportunity for everyone to learn something whilst sitting at a pc (or mac ) that might one day come in useful. Love YouTube

It's very easy to sit in front of the monitor and dish out criticisms, and say how stupid someone is for making a mistake, but after a couple hundred flights I am still making mistakes that I kick myself for, but crucially learn from. No two flights are ever the same, especially meteorologically, and there is always something to learn from each.

They should never be taken as an opportunity to preach.

The only thing that confused and shocked me a little was a comment made at 9.00mins about an assumption that increasing power would increase speed

and the surprise that instead of increasing forward progress, he in fact climbed.

Anyway, I love these videos and the opportunity for everyone to learn something whilst sitting at a pc (or mac ) that might one day come in useful. Love YouTube

Poz- my point here is that someone who offers instruction should know these paramotoring basics.

I think the armchair criticism is part of the process.

While most if not all of the comments above highlight what should be common sense among experienced pilots, there are also many novices and would-be pilots reading these posts.

If (and when) I make a mistake, I am happy to go over it in fine detail for the benefit of those new to flying.

In addition to learning aspects of flying that might not be so obvious as an experienced pilot might imagine, new pilots may also be encouraged to freely share their experiences for the benefit of the next generation and so on.

Wow I'm surprised and happy its nothing happen ,any pilot have to know :

1"wind gradient" 6mph-15 on the ground 200 feet higher can be twice that

2 where is speed bar sometimes trim full off its not a naff

3 norbertflyer had absolutely right -bad handling with strong wing ,when you landing just before touch down let your brakes off and grab immediately C -risers and pull down ,this brake your wing profile prevent any drag,if you fall over with c riser its nothing happens because wing wont be inflated any more until you not let C go and you have time rest

I've sat a few times at 1500 ft with a GPS speed of 0mph

Key thing to remember if you find yourself in a situation you hadn't expected and feel uncomfortable flying in... Don't panic!

As others said, your far better having an out landing and calling for a pick up than struggling back to your takeoff.

It's very easy to sit in front of the monitor and dish out criticisms, and say how stupid someone is for making a mistake, but after a couple hundred flights I am still making mistakes that I kick myself for, but crucially learn from. No two flights are ever the same, especially meteorologically, and there is always something to learn from each.

They should never be taken as an opportunity to preach.

The only thing that confused and shocked me a little was a comment made at 9.00mins about an assumption that increasing power would increase speed

and the surprise that instead of increasing forward progress, he in fact climbed.

Anyway, I love these videos and the opportunity for everyone to learn something whilst sitting at a pc (or mac ) that might one day come in useful. Love YouTube

It's all good that he made mistakes and showed us all without getting hurt or breaking much gear. The bit I cant get my head round is that he's offering to instruct people whilst at his level of skill.

To clear any potential confusion regarding 'tacking' diagonally into wind; this doesn't help the aviator at all and only wastes time/fuel. The best way to make progress into wind in any aircraft is to head directly into wind (usually in the slacker winds at lower level).

The sailing analogy is completely different because the sailor can't head directly into the wind, but certainly would if he could.

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It's very easy to sit in front of the monitor and dish out criticisms, and say how stupid someone is for making a mistake, but after a couple hundred flights I am still making mistakes that I kick myself for, but crucially learn from. No two flights are ever the same, especially meteorologically, and there is always something to learn from each.

They should never be taken as an opportunity to preach.

The only thing that confused and shocked me a little was a comment made at 9.00mins about an assumption that increasing power would increase speed

and the surprise that instead of increasing forward progress, he in fact climbed.

Anyway, I love these videos and the opportunity for everyone to learn something whilst sitting at a pc (or mac ) that might one day come in useful. Love YouTube

Poz- my point here is that someone who offers instruction should know these paramotoring basics.

To be honest Gordon, I didn't notice that he was offering instruction to beginners. I retract in this case

Been there a few times too. Nice good advises so far, let's recap:

- Dont panic.

- Learn your weather. Shit can happen, but bad weather/strong winds are normally predictable.

- Head upwind. Again good advise here. Wind picking up and changing direction is rare.

- Low level flying. There is a chance you can make it back to takeoff if you stay as low as you can (out of obstacles and always with a landing option of course).

- Learn how to control the wing on the ground.

I'll add two more:

1) Attach and use the speedbar. The guy in the video didn't even have a speedbar attached to the wing. Bad choice.

2) Choose a high speed range wing if you are flying in windy places. I'd recommend this to anyone, but more so in this case. If you have a wing that allows you to go as low as 20kph or as fast as 65kph, you have a better chance to make it out of troubles.

The only thing I would add is...

If the wind is picking up... / strong....

Flying TOO low is not a great idea due to your exposure to areas of rotor. (which increases with wind speed)

SW

The only thing I would add is...

If the wind is picking up... / strong....

Flying TOO low is not a great idea due to your exposure to areas of rotor. (which increases with wind speed)

SW

Only if you flying below some obstacle's line which is not wise. As long as you stay low but on top of the highest obstacle you will not have any problems with rotors.

Actually that is not quite correct.

Rotor can extend (in our weather window) 5 x higher than the object!!!! and 5 x behind (or downwind) of the object.

SW

5 x higher than the object!!!!

SW

I did not know this

how many times higher than an object will it be at 10knots,20knots?

You can still travel perpendicular to a strong wind direction and still make good progress.

Take a 30kph wind, a 50kph paramotor and a resultant 40kph ground speed, there and back.

Pythagoras, I think.

Richard

You can still travel perpendicular to a strong wind direction and still make good progress.

Take a 30kph wind, a 50kph paramotor and a resultant 40kph ground speed, there and back.

Pythagoras, I think.

Richard

Indeed, bear in mind that your track will be 90°, but your heading will be 53° relative to the wind.

Actually that is not quite correct.

Rotor can extend (in our weather window) 5 x higher than the object!!!! and 5 x behind (or downwind) of the object.

SW

Hi Simon,

care to share some references to this concept or its your theory/assumption?

As far as I know I never heard of read anything relating to rotors higher than 2x the obstacle's height, and thats on some serious wind speed with a particular terrain layout that is facilitating the rotor upward extension (i.e. some other obstacles that is funneling the rotor up).

The general thought in aviation is that as long as you fly twice the height of the obstacle you are fine (twice the height to be on the safe side, while in most situations flying over the horizontal line of the obstacle is safe).

You might be referring to the area of sinking which is always experienced in the air mass over and downwind of the rotor. That is also something to have in mind, but not quite like a rotor itself.

Actually that is not quite correct.

Rotor can extend (in our weather window) 5 x higher than the object!!!! and 5 x behind (or downwind) of the object.

SW

Hi Simon,

care to share some references to this concept or its your theory/assumption?

....... like a rotor itself.

Back when I was learning (BMAA Syllabus) my Instructor told me it was 2x the height of the obstacle, and 4x the height horizontally from the obstacle to avoid.

One particular aspect often overlooked is the effect of hedges and trees when in full leaf. You may not experience any issues this time of year, but when summer comes you suddenly have a massive rotor generator.

GD

The rotor created by an obstacle will depend on a number of factors, including wind speed, other upwind obstacles and the shape of the obstacle.

An aerodynamically 'clean' obstacle can produce a massive disturbance - observe the trail left by an F1 car's rear wing in wet conditions.

The point is that some obstacles can produce very large areas of disturbance. The safest approach is to treat all obstacles as if they are the worst kind and give them plenty of space.